Ambasaderi Karega yageze i Kinshasa muri Nyakanga 2020, ariko nyuma y’amezi 27 ahava akoresheje ubwato buto, bwamugejeje i Brazaville aho yuririye indege.

Ibyo birego byose u Rwanda rwakomeje kubihakana, abaseseguzi bakabihuza n’uko mu mwaka utaha muri RDC hari amatora, bityo ko Perezida Félix Tshisekedi ashaka guhishira imiyoborere mibi ya Guverinoma ye, ku buryo n’amatora ashobora gusubikwa, bikitirirwa igihugu cy’amahanga.

Ambasaderi Karega yagiranye ikiganiro na Jeune Afrique, agaruka ku ngingo zitandukanye.

Jeune Afrique : Mwabyakiriye mute ubwo mwamenyeshwaga ko mugomba kuva muri RDC?

Vincent Karega : Ikibabaje, nari nzi ko umusi umwe bizabaho. Hashize amezi menshi ibitekerezo byo kwibasira u Rwanda bikwirakwizwa muri RDC, nkabona n’ibitekerezo binyibasira ubwanjye.

Habayeho imyigaragambyo isaba ko mugenda. Yigeze ibatera ubwoba?

Ntabwo nigeze ngira ubwoba kubera ko ntacyo nishinja.

Nyuma yo kwirukanwa, u Rwanda rwaba ruteganya narwo kwihimura?

Oya, ntabwo ariko biri. Tubona ko RDC itatubaniye, ariko ntidukora politiki yo kwihimura.

Kwirukanwa kwanyu kwaba gusobanuye iherezo ry’umubano hagati ya RDC n’u Rwanda?

Ntabwo ntinda ku butumwa RDC yo itanga. Imvugo yo "gucana umubano burundu" ntabwo yigeze ikoreshwa n’igihugu na kimwe. Umubano wajemo agatotsi cyane ariko ntabwo wahagaze.

Iminsi yawe ya nyuma i Kishasa yari yifashe ite?

Byari bigoye, kubera ko u Rwanda rushinjwa ibibi byose muri RDC. I Kinshasa, u Rwamda rwari Vincent Karega. Ntabwo byari byoroshye gukorera mu mwuka umeze utyo, ngo habeho gutsura umubano mu by’ubucuruzi, ngo nitabire ibikorwa ndangamuco cyangwa igikorwa icyo aricyo cyose, nubwo cyaba kigamije guhuriza hamwe Abanye-Congo n’Abanya-Rwanda.

Kubera iki u Rwanda rukomeza guhakana gufasha M23, mu gihe raporo y’impuguke z‘Umuryango w’Abibumbye na bamwe mu bafatanyabikorwa banyu nka Leta Zunze Ubumwe za Amerika babikomozaho?

Ntabwo kuba impuguke y’Umuryango w’Abibumbye yavuze ikintu bigihindura ukuri. Abaturage babana ku mpande zombi z’imipaka, ibibazo nabyo byambukiranya imipaka. Kuva FDLR yashingwa muri RDC, hari ingengabitekerezo y’urwango no kwibasira Abatutsi muri RDC.

FDLR yaciyemo ibice abaturage ba Congo, irabasahura, ibavana mu byabo, izi mpunzi nazo ziza gushaka uburyo bwo kwirwanaho, zishingiye ahanini mu Rwanda, Uganda n’u Burundi.

Ugendeye kuri ibyo, ntabwo wavuga ko u Rwanda ntaho ruhuriye nabyo, ariko ntabwo bikwiye kuvuga ko u Rwanda ari yo nkomoko ya M23.

Mwaba mushaka kuvuga ko hari inkunga ihabwa M23?

Oya, ntabwo mvuga inkunga yaba iya politiki cyangwa igisirikare. Navugaga ukuri kw’abaturage n’ibibazo byambukiranya imipaka, bizakemurwa gusa binyuze mu bufatanye n’ibihugu byose bireba.

Nubwo u Rwanda rubihakana, ibimenyetso bikomeza kwiyongera…! Musobanura mute umwanzuro wagezweho n’itsinda ry’impuguke z’Umuryango w’Abibumbye?

Ntabwo nzi niba ari ibimenyetso byiyongera cyangwa niba ari ibyitwa ibimenyetso bihora bigaruka. Nibaza uburyo izi mpuguke zibasha gutandukanya umusirikare w’u Rwanda n’uwa M23, kubera ko benshi mu bagize M23 bavuga Ikinyarwanda.

Nanone, wavuga ko izo mpuguke z’Umuryango w’Abibumbye zagaragaje ko Ingabo za Repubulika Iharanira Demokarasi ya Congo (FARDC) zifatanya, zigafasha ndetse zigakorana na FDLR mu kurwana.

Niba dushaka gukemura icyo kibazo, ni ngombwa kugihera impande zose.

Mwaba muzi ibyo M23 isaba?

Yego, ariko ntabwo ndi umuvugizi wayo. M23 ihora ivuga ibyo irwanira. Muri rusange, M23 kimwe n’abandi bavuga Ikinyarwanda muri RDC, bamagana ivangura bakomeje gukorerwa.

Iyo bamwe mu banyapolitiki bavuga ko Umututsi adashobora kuba Umunye-Congo, iyo bamwe mu basirikare b’Abatutsi bafatwa nk’abanyamahanga, iyo abantu bamwe bahigwa bazira ko ari Abatutsi, ni ikibazo gikomeye.

Ibyo bibazo byakomeje kwisubiramo, Abatutsi batangira kumva badatekanye nk’abari iwabo, ntabwo bazi aho bakwiye kujya n’icyo bakora.

U Rwanda rwaba rufite amakuru y’ibyemeranyijwe hagati ya Kinshasa na M23 ubwo Félix Tshisekedi yajyaga ku butegetsi mu 2019 ?

Kuva mu 2012 hasinywe amasezerano yiswe aya Nairobi, nyuma mu 2013 habayeho amasezerano ya Addis Ababa yateganyaga ko abasirikare ba M23 bazinjizwa mu ngabo za Leta, ariko akanateganya uburyo bwo gucyura impunzi zari mu nkambi zitandukanye mu Rwanda na Uganda.

U Rwanda ruzi ko mu 2019, Guverinoma nshya ya Félix Tshisekedi yashyizeho uburyo bwo kubahiriza ayo masezerano.

Ku nshuro zitandukanye, intumwa zoherejwe i Kigali n’i Kampala, haba ibiganiro n’abahoze ari abarwanyi ba M23 bari mu Rwanda, kimwe n’abari muri Uganda.

Ndetse na bamwe mu bahagarariye M23 bamaze amezi 14 i Kinshasa, babifashijwemo na Guverinoma ya Congo.

Ni gute ibiganiro bya Luanda na Nairobi byahabwa imbaraga?

Izi gahuda zombi zirahari. Mu misi mike ishize, intumwa yihariye ya Perezida João Lourenço, Téte António, yagiye i Kinshasa n’i Kigali. Mu gihe gito kiri imbere, abakuru b’ibihugu bigize Umuryango wa Afurika y’Iburasirazuba bazahura baganira kuri iki kiibazo.

Gahunda yo gushyiraho ingabo zihuriweho nayo irimo gushyirwa mu bikorwa, kugira ngo izi ngabo zikorane nk’uko byemejwe muri ayo masezerano.

U Bubiligi buheruka gusaba u Rwanda gutanga umusanzu mu gukemura iki kibazo rukoresheje uburyo bwose rufite, mu kumvisha M23 kuvana ingabo mu duce yafashe muri RDC. Kigali ntiyaba irimo kwishyira mu kato mu bijyanye na dipolomasi?

U Rwanda ntabwo ruyobora M23. Rwakomeje gutanga umusanzu warwo mu gushyigikira gahunda zitandukanye n’amasezerano, ariko ntabwo rubikora rwonyine.

Ntabwo dufite ahantu dukanda harema ibyo bibazo byose.

Hari ibyo RDC yifuzaga, ariko hari n’ibyo M23 ishaka, ni ngombwa gutega amatwi impande zombi.

M23 irahava se ijye he? Mu Rwanda? Ariko abayigize ntabwo ari Abanyarwanda. Ni ikibazo kigoye kandi igisubizo kigomba kuboneka bigizwemo uruhare n’ibihugu byose bya Afurika y’Iburasirazuba.

Ntabwo ugomba kuvura ibimenyetso. Ahubwo ugomba kuvura icyateye uburwayi.

Muri iki kibazo ni ibiki u Rwanda rusaba?

U Rwanda nta kintu na kimwe rusaba: Rugomba guharanira ko imbibi zarwo zidashobora kuvogerwa n’uwo ari we wese, by’umwihariko abagize uruhare muri Jenoside mu Rwanda.

Kubera ko abo bakomeje guteza ikibazo gihoraho, mu gihe bakwiye kuba bari imbere y’ubutabera. Ni icyo kirakaza u Rwanda.

Ku bwanyu, RDC ikoresha u Rwanda nk’urwitwazo?

Yego, kandi raporo y’impuguke z’Umuryango w’Abibumbye yifashishwa na Kinshasa mu kutwibasira ntabwo ivuga M23, ahubwo ivuga FDLR. Buri wese akwiye kureka ibyo arimo akajya ku meza y’ibiganiro, harimo ubushake bwa Politiki bugamije kureba imbere, kugira ngo tubashe kugira akarere gatekanye, mu nyungu za buri gihugu kikagize.

RDC yirukanye Amb Karega nyuma y'imyaka ibiri ari mu butumwa